Yet ye have robbed me. Malachi 3:8
If I walked confidently through one issue of my religion, tithing was one. You could even say I had a strut about me:
Full confidence in a lay clergy.
Full confidence in our humanitarian efforts.
Full confidence in meetinghouses and Temples built with no debt.
Then some information came to light that tripped me on the curb and I ate the sidewalk. Face first into a pain of consciousness.
Our church built a mall. ....blink, blink..... Our church built a mall?!?
In the heart of Salt Lake City, City Creek Center is the retail centerpiece of one of the nation's largest mixed-use downtown redevelopment projects. This unique shopping environment features a retractable glass roof, a creek that runs through the property, a pedestrian skybridge and more. This world-class fashion and dining destination offers over 90 stores and restaurants including Nordstrom, Macy's, Tiffany & Co., Michael Kors, Coach, and Texas de Brazil Churrascaria, in a casual, pedestrian-friendly environment. From here
Yes you read that right; a mall. A "megamall" actually.
People are dying from lack of food, but we built a shopping mall.
I've seen estimates of 1.5 billion to 5 billion.
ba,ba,ba BILLION. A billion is a thousand million (lots of zeros)
Why oh why is the Lord's kingdom financing high end shopping malls?
ain't it pretty?
We feel terrific. We've accomplished, we think, what we set out to accomplish.
–H. David Burton, LDS Church presiding bishop
okaaaaaaay...
1.3 billion spent on International Humanitarian Fund since it began in 1985.
1.5 billion on ONE MALL.
does anyone else see a problem here?
I worked very hard on this one for a long time. It rolled around in my brain like a violent pinball machine.
I tried to make allowances like:
Its not technically from 'tithes' - its from investments.
It will protect the area around the Temple and other historical structures of the Church.
Maybe the church is a partial silent investor.
Maybe we will re-coup this money.
maybe, maybe, maybe...
A couple of heated discussion with Kyle over this one.
Then the ribbon cutting:
And that was it - frustration that I could not get past anymore. This is not acceptable to me. In that picture there on the right is the First Presidency at the ribbon cutting - chanting 123 "let's go shopping"
President Eyring spoke on behalf of the Church at Thursday's ceremony, saying City Creek Center is now open to invite the world to come to downtown Salt Lake City & headquarters of the Church. "Everything that we see around us is evidence of the long-standing commitment of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Salt Lake City," from Church News
wait? That is what we are committed to? Because I thought it was to the stranger, and to the fatherless, and to the widow that they may eat within thy gates and be filled.
As Jana Reiss put it:
Given those facts, spending a billion and a half dollars on a den of luxury consumption is a moral failure. It just is. A more modest, scaled-down plan to revitalize Salt Lake’s once-thriving downtown would have been enough. The rest is vanity, calculated to impress. It is palpably ironic that the mall contains a luxury store called True Religion jeans (opening Summer 2012). Whatever else it may be, this mall is not true religion.
From here
The mall will be closed on Sundays - but alcohol will be served at some restaurants. So that would mean our church is now invested in alcohol sales. Very, very interesting.
I am sure this is not even remotely on many LDS member's radars, and honestly I'd like to return to clueless land most days - but now that I know, I can't get past it. When you read through all of Malachi and not just that exact verse, you can see that the scripture "Will a man rob God" is not directed at the tithe-payers, but the Priests who were mis-using the tithes given.
Add the mall to my concerns over many other fiancial ventures of the church, Prop 8, our controlling nature over the Boy Scouts of America, banks, insurance companies, ranches, hotels, hunting preserves, sending senior missionaries to "work/serve" on their dime at for-profit businesses, etc.
I am lost as to how to reconcile this.
What saddens me most is that I can't properly defend my Church to myself or to others, because they won't tell me what is going on. Since the 1960's they don't tell us anymore what happens to our tithing.
For the first 128 years of this Church's formal existence, it was an essential part of April conference for the leaders of the Church to report it's financial dealings in full to the general membership. This was usually among the first matters of business during the Saturday morning session. From the time of Joseph Smith on, it was understood that the members who provided the tithes were to be shown how their sacred tithing dollars had been disbursed so they could voice their consent. The leaders understood they had a sacred fiduciary trust and a responsibility to inform the members of a) how much money was collected in tithing, and b) how that money was being spent from one year to the next.
from Here
I think if I just knew - then I could maybe work through this. But what I feel now is that I should no longer just "trust" that the Church as a corporation is doing right by tithing.
There is an online petition right now in regards to this issue that I would urge members to ponder on and consider signing. I think it is of utmost importance: http://bycommonconsent.org/, and it says:
“And all things shall be done by common consent in the church”
DOCTRINE & COVENANTS 26:2
As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints it is our desire to faithfully fulfill our obligation to our church by at least annually giving our “voice and Common Consent” as to the allocation of the funds that have been and are currently being donated by us to our Church.
We believe as President Hinckley stated that the financial information of our church “belongs to those that made the contribution”.
For most of our history our church provided full disclosure of its funds. Even in times of financial difficulties members could share in the joy of knowing that good works were being accomplished with their collective donations. We have confidence that a full annual financial disclosure will vindicate the virtue and integrity of our church’s financial affairs that are consistent with the principles taught by our Lord. Such open transparency will also dispel all mystery that often leads to unverifiable speculation both without and within our church: “And He doeth nothing, save it be plain.” (2 Ne. 26:33). We seek complete transparency in all our financial affairs by following the Lord’s counsel that monies placed into His treasury shall “not be used, or taken out of the treasury, only by voice and common consent” (Doctrine and Covenants 104:71).
Therefore, we the undersigned members formally request that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints once again publish a full annual financial report that provides sufficient details so that we as members can once again give our “voice and Common Consent” as to the allocation of monies expended by our Church.
13 comments:
My initial reaction after first hearing about the City Creek mall was the same as yours - I found it very disturbing. Then I read this, which tempered my opinion of it:
http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2012/04/city-creek-and-the-choices-of-thrift/
I still cringe at that ribbon-cutting photo-op though and the 123 shopping. For a church that is so concerned with its image you'd have thought its PR instincts would have kicked in then...
And I would love to see the church be more open about its finances.
Turn on virtually any religious program on Sundays and you'll see a profit-making venture. Still, I can see how such an ostentatious investment would be disappointing, especially if it's a symptom of a lapsed tradition of disclosure.
Jaime: after reading the article you referenced, I would have been more inclined to support the author's idea of a scaled-down investment in downtown SLC. Nonetheless, I can see how any choices beyond parking the tithes in a money market account would be subject to criticism.
Amen!!! I signed the petition. Although, I really do not think that it will do anything. The church has gotten out of court orders to reveal their finances, a petition of a few hundred or thousand members will not do a thing.
I swear that I could be writing these posts. You are in my head:)
Jaime - that article sparked a long conversation.
I see the purpose of investing a portion of tithing, I wish I knew what portion it was. But I do wish that the investments came remotely close to either the mission of the church or endeavors that will benefit more members. Do we plan to do revitalization projects in every city where we have temples or just headquarters?
And I question the feasibility of a mall of this magnitude giving any decent return on investment if any at all.
Tony - you are right about religion becoming a profit making venture, I just 'thought' we were above that
Ryann, I have those same thoughts too - I don't see the petition really helping - and I am sad at how few signatures - I think too many are afraid. Another element of this journey that has become terrifying. I don't even really like telling my story here - but is there a safe venue to air concerns?
I mean honestly as responsible of a group as we are as a church more people should be DEMANDING this information - We should have had a say in this mall. I don't know if I wouldn't have ended up being FOR it with more information - but they way it was handled gives me the bad kind of chills.
Sorry Jaime I tried to publish your comment from my phone and my fat finger hit delete instead ill fix it as soon as I'm at a computer
ummm i am ok with the church building a mall. malls make jobs which is more influential than just feeding the homeless for one day. it gives the homeless and jobless food for their life. i think is your opionion about the church ? or your testimony? why should it matter what the church does if you have a testimony of christ ? and know this is his church? remember the gospel is perfect and that we dont live in a perfect world where money does need to be earned.i am ok with them having the mall because then more money comes back into the church this is called being self relianant . thn more money can goto charity. money just doesnt come from no where. yes you say from tithing but how many of us are full tithe payers including myself need to work on that seems to me the church or god is smarter than us he knows what he is doing even if we dont. i am not trying to offend i am more just giving mine if you can give yours
That is a perfectly fine opinion to have. I think it's the motivation behind the leadership. The problems I have are: It's not what he scriptures tell us to do with tithes and offerings. It's a terrible venture for the sake of creating more money. I don't agree with the church basically selling alcohol. And it goes against the Doctrine and Covenants - do all things by common consent.
And Chrust never asked us to feed the homeless when it's influential - he just asked us to do it.
One last thought I think, we didn't create jobs at this mall in a vacuum - this mall has decimated the other salt lake city mall - so we created jobs by ruining others
Here is Jaime's accidentally deleted comment:
I'm pretty sure they didn't do it with the expectation of getting a big financial return on their investment. The way the article explained it, I took it as being a way to invest funds that they didn't want to spend right now, and use them to improve the downtown SLC area in the meantime, with the option to recoup those funds at some point by selling the property if they need to.
Here is another article I forgot to link to earlier that is in response to the Businessweek artcle I'm sure you saw a few weeks back.
http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2012/07/business-weeks-erroneous-claim-about-lds-charitable-giving/
I have thought more about the above comment from unknown and it still just doesn't work...
For one if the Church did this to create more income for the church I can think of about a million better things to invest money in.
They didn't do it to really create jobs or give jobs to the jobless - it siphoned jobs from elsewhere. I don't see it helping the homeless - if anything it is to drive them further away from church headquarters - the mall is there to combat 'blight'
and I for one am a full tithe payer - a full tithe payer on gross income and I rarely can afford to donate to other charities because I don't have the money left and I always rationalize that my church has to be better than any other organization in the world for humanitarian efforts. It would appear that I was wrong. I have "trusted in the arm of flesh"
Well, this comment outta shock the hell out of you. ;) How are you?
I've been to the mall. You can walk across the street to it from Temple Square.
I read the literature on the building of the mall. Tithing money was not spent on the construction. And, if you considered 'in kind' donations made through our humanitarian efforts, the numbers are astronomical. Don't forget ... this is not a church that does things wanting recognition. That is why the only dollar amount put on that humanitarian figure is of actual CASH. No dollar amount has been assigned to the TRUCK LOADS of goods that have been donated. Because the church does not do it to be recognized.
So, if some brilliant financial people manage my tithing money, build a huge piece of real estate without debt, generate more income, and hire hundreds of people in the process with the profits from investing my money, I'm good with that.
And, the other malls that you speak of still exist. They're still employing people. This mall is largely supported by tourists (Temple Square is in the top 20 most visited places in the US) who would otherwise have not ventured out to Sandy or other neighboring areas to spend money.
It's a genius business move. Having been there, seen it, walked across the street from Temple Square to have lunch at it ... I was sold. We have some very fine businessmen in charge of our financial endeavors. On the flip side, we also have some incredibly compassionate men and women in charge of our humanitarian efforts. The two are separate. To lump them together robs the other of it's brilliance and greatness.
I might (big might) have been behind it if the information was open to us as tithe paying members, before this huge project was green lighted. Or if we knew some amount of information about our money usage like we did for the first 100+ years of the restored church.
And I reject the notion that its not tithes - no matter how its spun - The church is ONLY tithes, every bit of it - all investments past and present and all the money made off of those investments are because of tithing.
And.. it is hurting another mall: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/54225534-79/apple-gateway-creek-store.html.csp
Many have said the two malls are too close and too big and too much for salt lake city to support two malls.
And are we going to do this in EVERY city where we have prominent temples and real estate to protect? this could get very expensive.
And we can hope it will make money. Many don't have that much of a good outlook:
"the whole world knows that Mormons are the only ones dumb enough to pour their money into a giant shopping mall at a time when everyone else is getting out. We couldn't be more proud."
and then... alcohol sales. That warms my heart to no end - that is one facet of how I hope my church recoups their money.
I've tried to be ok with this.. I have but its nothing but yuck, yuck, yuck in my mouth.
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