Questioning Mormonism?

Shout out to anyone in the Dallas Fort Worth area, join us on Facebook or meetup at DAMIT "Dallas area Mormons in transition" 

We are having some fantastic Family home evenings and enrichment nights ;) please spread the word to anyone who could use the local support. 

Faith I would like to introduce you to Epistemology

I want to take something back.

I characterized my transition out of the church as a "faith crisis" and quite frankly I don't want to call it that anymore. It wasn't a crisis. It was difficult and emotional and generally a suck fest, but crisis? nah. And that term 'faith crisis' implies in some sense that I had created the problem.

A while back I ran into someone, a mormon friend, and since our time was brief I didn't want to bring it up, but it came up anyway. "How is the ward?"

good, as far as I know. (non committal answer)

"How is the family?"

great.

"So what is your calling these days?"

ummm. Actually we left the church in February.

"WHAT? silence.....
that doesn't sound like you."

On the drive home that phrase bounced around in my head like a ping pong ball. "doesn't sound like you"  it irritated me. It had nothing to do with me really. I dug into church history to solidify my faith, not lose it. What I found was NOT of my doing. History was history, I could not change it and I could not put it on the crumbling shelf anymore. How was I, almost 200 years later, dealing with the fallout of some other man's lies?
In the moment of our conversation. I gave my elevator pitch of my main reasons for leaving. She said what I had heard before:

"I know Joseph saw what he saw and did what he did."

And there it was, the "I know" I kept the conversation polite and kind but I thought:
NO YOU DON'T KNOW. You don't know. You just don't know. You just don't. I don't and YOU don't.

You have faith, but I no longer see the value in faith. Faith is lack of evidence. Or in the case of mormonism belief not only with lack of evidence but against a mountain of conflicting evidence. Faith is pretending to know something that you just don't know. Faith brings you here rather quickly:

cre·du·li·ty

krəˈd(y)o͞olitē/

noun

1. 1.

   a tendency to be too ready to believe that something is real or true.

When you really think about it, it's the things we have little evidence for that we keep fighting to believe. We are warned over and over again that our testimonies need "strengthening". What else in life once we have solid evidence for, do we need to keep strengthening our belief in?

Studying epistemology, thinking about thinking has really changed my entire world view. When religious, there were vast areas of science and ideas that I was just not participating in. I have this new world open to me and it doesn't deal in a realm where I have to suspend my logic. There were so so so many things that just never made sense to me.

I am still in the stage of processing. I am abandoning my native tongue. I can't just get up off my knees brush off the dirt and keep walking without deconstructing what I had worked so hard for - but now there is a whistle while I work.

When people share their stories now I'm not so much interested in what they know as much as how they know.

“There exists in society a very special class of persons that I have always referred to as the Believers. These are folks who have chosen to accept a certain religion, philosophy, theory, idea or notion and cling to that belief regardless of any evidence that might, for anyone else, bring it into doubt. They are the ones who encourage and support the fanatics and the frauds of any given age. No amount of evidence, no matter how strong, will bring them any enlightenment. - James Randi

Map out your questioning.

I have new advice. Over time, since I have been open about my disaffection, some have in confidence shared that they are also doubting the church's claims. They wonder what resources might help. I generally share the sources that I found to be credible or at least not intensely slanted in either direction for or against the church.

Now that its not quite so emotional, I have started to think back over the map of my own apostasy and I wish I could do it over again. So here goes for time machine advice to myself:

First, Deeply consider one question:

IF there is evidence that the church is not what it claims to be, do you want to know?

For me the answer is yes because the truth is that important to me that I have a grasp on it even if it does not meld with what I want to be true. But if you can not say the same, do not go any further. When you stumble on info like Joseph Smith sent men on missions and married their wives while they were away. Or that he had sex with other women then when found out, claimed divine intervention, or that there are multiple versions of the first vision. IF those do not sit well in your mind, or you are capable of doubting the sources. Then by all means do that. Do exactly what Uctdorf says and doubt the doubts.

If like me, you must know, you want information from as many direct sources as possible and trained historians. Then here is the advice from my perspective:


1. Stop and breathe, decide in your mind that no matter what, you will take the process slowly. Read and investigate voraciously but continue to live as you are, no brash decision to stop going to church or activities. I think it actually helped my leaving that I went to church every Sunday during my disaffection and research.

2. Value objectivism over emotion. Religion is emotional and deals with our deepest existential fears. Table those emotions as best you can.

3. DO NOT CONTINUE ON WITH LDS MATERIAL at this point. Stop and start somewhere else:
-Get a very firm grip on logical fallacies and how to formulate an argument without flaws.
-Investigate the basic debates on deities.
-Decide your personal parameters for investigating truth.

4. Go back to the scriptures with the expectation that the creator of all the universe be somewhat logical. This site has scriptures organized by topic to aid your reading. Consider how you would communicate with your children and compare the information in the scriptures, including slavery and racism. In other words go read your scriptures but let critical thinking trump your feelings.

5. When you have a working knowledge of logical fallacies and investigating claims rationally return to investigating general claims of Mormonism but not church history yet. I'd start with rationalizing the plan of salvation: Pre-existence

6. Read books by non-believers and how they arrived there.
Losing my Religion by Lobdell
Deconverted by Seth Andrews
Why People Believe Weird Things by Shermer

7. Get into science.
StarTalk Radio
Big Think
The most astounding fact
Storytelling of Science
Radiolab

8. Now you are ready to Dig into church history.

9. Make your list of reasons to stay and reasons to leave, defend both positions logically to yourself.

10. Share with loved ones slowly and carefully as you feel ready. Preface conversations with the hope that the conversation can remain objective. "We discuss without tearful testimony sharing"


I went through my journey backwards, I was full of emotion and anger and had no clue about logical arguments so while I flopped like a dying fish - unable to recapture belief but fearful of the supernatural everything in my life was scary. I waited for signs that would never come. Every flat tire or tight paycheck was a sign of doom that I was a bad person just for questioning. A pregnancy laden with fear because surely I would be punished or have "blessings withheld".

Paradigm shifts are extremely difficult, they can only be handled rationally or you will be tugged at from every single direction with your free will abused with emotion, personal history, relationships, love and want.

Reason, Observation and Experience — the Holy Trinity of Science — have taught us that happiness is the only good; that the time to be happy is now, and the way to be happy is to make others so. This is enough for us. In this belief we are content to live and die. If by any possibility the existence of a power superior to, and independent of, nature shall be demonstrated, there will then be time enough to kneel. Until then, let us stand erect. - Robert Ingersoll

Scriptures... Bring it.

I did what I had been admonished to do I turned to the scriptures and really focused, doing my best to remain objective. Here are a few things that were insurmountable.

My first BIG problem, polygamy, lets liken the scriptures unto ourselves:

Doctrine and Covenants 132
54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law. 

So Emma needs to agree to the polygamous arrangements of her husband or she will.... DIE.
Wha? WHAT??
That's harsh.
Who will kill her?
THE LORD THY GOD... WILL DESTROY HER.

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

If the first give consent? Of course she will give consent! Because if you haven't forgotten from an earlier verse if she does not give consent what will happen?

SHE WILL DIE.
Wha? WHAT??
That's harsh.
Who will kill her?
THE LORD THY GOD... WILL DESTROY HER.

Oh yeah facepalm.... totally give consent (two thumbs way up Emma, I'd pick door number one for consenting to sharing with the other nice ladies!)
But how many women might I be sharing my man with, Emma might ask?


 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

TEN Emma, the answer is TEN. Or 33... who is counting?


Book of Mormon:

1 Nephi
23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

Just to sum that up, very briefly: If you dwindle in unbelief you will turn dark. (Is black the word they are looking for?) and not just dark, but also filthy and also loathsome.
Because that is both totally scientific and not at all racist. Wonder if my new crush would appreciate this scripture?

Now if you are strong and procreative in context of faithfulness? You turn fair, previously the text said "white and delightsome" ... This was part of the many, many changes made over the years to the Book of Mormon. For the 'most correct' book on earth its needed a little tweaking.

4 Nephi 1
10 And now, behold, it came to pass that the people of Nephi did wax strong, and did multiply exceedingly fast, and became an exceedingly fair and delightsome people.

Is this right:

2 Nephi 29
 6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

No research on this one yet but.... When Lehi's families got the plates AND before Christ had come AND therefore before there was ANY New Testament... Were they calling it 'the Bible'? Or did Joseph sneak that in to account for extreme skepticism of his work?

What in holy hell are we teaching our daughters?

Moroni 9
9 And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

So in regard to daughters being taken PRISONERS and RAPED.  They have lost THEIR chastity.

slow blink

blink...

blink...

THEY LOST CHASTITY and VIRTUE

because they were taken prisoner and raped?

CUE MOMMA BEAR scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and I haven't even gotten to, that in the first place, a woman's chastity and virtue is the most precious and dear thing about her ABOVE ALL ELSE?

Dear daughters, your sexuality is amazing. It is not the most important thing about you. It is not, nor ever will be. And if by horrific chance you are raped. You have done nothing wrong yourself. You have been wronged and are in need of nothing but justice.

PS. This scripture is referenced in Personal Progress.... and that is not ok.

Want more? Go here or here.


If I gave you a Book of Mormon. I am sorry, I wasn't really aware, like I thought I was.

"You are more moral than the God that they forced you to believe, that they conned you into accepting" - Matt Dillahunty

A better alternative for morality

I was really angry when I first dived into some of the atheist thinkers, they were just so offensive. Then I had to really examine how come I was offended by their denial of scripture, but not offended by the ill treatment of women IN the scriptures. 

Hello confirmation bias, My name is Janie.

eyes.

opened. 

PS. I'm not done. There is more, including the Old and New Testament.